Tough Love for Copywriting with Stephanie Trovato
Date release: November 2, 2023
In this episode, Tori Autumn chats with Stephanie Trovato, a tough-love copywriting coach who shares her invaluable insights on improving your blog, email, and landing page copy.
Stephanie shares the benefits she's gaining from her walking treadmill, emphasizing the importance of regular movement for both physical and mental health.
Tori talks about her recent commitment to daily movement, inspired by her Apple watch, and how it has significantly improved her overall well-being and productivity.
Stephanie shares three high-impact tips for improving your copy:
Avoid vagueness – be specific and direct.
Limit your emails to one Call-to-Action (CTA) per email for clarity.
Write concise, straight-to-the-point copy. Stephanie advises her favorite self-love advice to "cut the crap" and eliminate unnecessary filler words.
Stephanie encourages listeners not to be too hard on themselves as business owners. She shares her personal experience of feeling overwhelmed, emphasizing the importance of looking at the big picture and maintaining a positive outlook.
Tori wraps up the podcast by expressing her gratitude to Stephanie for her time and insights. She asks Stephanie where the listeners can connect with her further. Stephanie mentions her Instagram handle, @toughlovecopycoach, and her email address stephanie@toughlovecopy.com.
Make sure to listen to the entire episode to get all the details, available on Spotify, YouTube and Apple Podcasts.
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Tori Autumn: You're listening to the On a Living Spree podcast with me, Tori Autumn, where we cover all things marketing related for small business owners and all things in between doing business as a human doing life. We have a special guest today and someone I dearly look up to. Her name is Stephanie Trovato.
She also goes by Steph, and she's a copywriter and strategist for B2B pioneers in SaaS, e commerce, and Mark tech. Her work has been featured in HubSpot, Business Insider, LinkedIn, and Gartner, just to name a few. After successfully building her own copywriting business, she launched Tough Love Copy Coaching to help her fellow entrepreneurs and small business owners create their own compelling, genuine copy through relatable and hands on coaching.
In her coaching, she provides a hands on experience for small business CEOs to hone in their copy and get it out in the world to live the life they dream of. Steph, thank you so much for being on the show today.
Stephanie Trovato: Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.
Tori Autumn: Wonderful. So even though I've gotten the pleasure of reading your amazing bio, I'd love for you to just tell us where did your road to entrepreneurship begin?
Stephanie Trovato: Oh, do you know, I never ever thought I would even be an entrepreneur because I was always like, no, that's too stressful. I don't want that life. But I also understand it in like a digital way, just like a store or something like that. Um, and then COVID threw through my world for a loop. So I, um, in 2019, when I had a full time marketing role, and I was making like no money, I waitressed on the side to pay for daycare, because in New York, it's very expensive.
And I was like, I am tired, there has to be something else to do. So someone had posted their friend needed help writing some articles and I was like, yeah, sure, I could do that because part of my full time role was writing. And I wrote some articles for Huffington Post. They were like gift guides and they paid 150 and I was like, Oh my God, this is my answer.
Now I don't have to waitress anymore. So I was like, I'm going to do this. As a side business, like from the beginning and do it right. So I registered my business into an LLC and had a separate account, did all those things, and then started just doing it slowly. And then March 2020, when the whole world ended, I was furloughed. And I was like, okay, well, now I don't have anything else to do. So. That is how it all began.
Tori Autumn: Wow. Thank you for sharing that. And so interesting that you started off with blogging, HuffPost. What do you do now? What are your, like, favorite projects to do now?
Stephanie Trovato: I am not in that world at all anymore. I do write articles, but not really gift cards.
Um, I do a lot of B2B. So, like, business to business. Um, a lot of software companies or a kind of app. Or, like, any kind of platform that makes someone else's life at work. Easier and, um, a lot of copywriting. So website, social media, email, all of the above.
Tori Autumn: Amazing. Amazing. And, um, I wanted to also mention how I met you.
We were in a mastermind together and you just blew me away with your presentation on having a mamba mentality and scaling your business to 300k. Um, so for people who. Or business owners who have a family and also have a successful business. How do you find yourself, um, turning down opportunities or saying no to opportunities so that you can balance mom, wife duties, and also your business and your personal life.
Stephanie Trovato: So, you know, as a mom, you would think that you could do everything, because you literally can, but it doesn't mean that you should, and, um, I like to learn things the hard way, so I won't say I took it, like, easy, but in the beginning, I said yes to everything, because I was like, yeah, I'll make it work, I'll make it work, no problem.
And the people that ended up affecting most were me. And then luckily my daughter's only six now. So when this all started, she didn't know either way, but my husband started to notice like, Steph, you're always on, you have to chill. Like you have to like put your phone down and stop looking at things. And I needed that kind of harsh reminder.
So from there, um, when I started embracing more of my Mamba mentality of just going hard and like doing things better, um, one of Kobe Bryant's biggest things is boundaries and like making things work for you and, and not, not necessarily listening to other people's advice. Like I work really well early in the day.
So that's what I work. I can't stay up late at night. So I have since. Giving myself a lot of boundaries, um, like no phone calls on Fridays, um, giving myself extra time for due dates, whenever I get an email now, um, for like any kind of request, I used to always answer immediately, because like, I don't know, I thought these people could see me, like, it's such a silly thing, uh, and now I like, just leave it there, and mark it on red, and just let it sit, For a minute so I can think before I immediately say yes, or immediately say no, I kind of sit there and be like, wait, can I actually do this?
And, do I want to do this? Like, as I've gotten to the point where like, I now know what my time is worth. And just because something pays well does not mean it's worth my time. So I would say the best thing to do is Write out, you know, like, if you could make any boundary, any list, like, things that are important to you, like, no shifting from that.
Like, what would they be? Like, mine is no meetings, mine is always being at the bus stop, mine is not working on the weekends, um, I turn off my notifications at night. Like things like that. And they could be all these little things, but they add up to like a much better mental health.
Tori Autumn: Oh, I love that. I love also what you mentioned about, even though something pays well, doesn't necessarily mean that you need to do it or should do it.
So I love that you put up those boundaries and think about the things that you really like to do. And you also mentioned that you, you wake up pretty early and you can't stay up at night. Um, what time do you usually get up and begin working? Like what is the typical day look like for you?
Stephanie Trovato: So, I usually work, you know, five days a week.
I work like my daughter's school schedule, basically, which is, um, she gets on the bus at 8:15 and gets off at 4:15, but usually two days a week. I like to wake up early, so I know everyone's going to say I'm crazy, but I wake up at 3:15 and then I watch TV for like an hour. That's when I watch like the shows no one else will watch with me, like Virgin River and Real Housewives.
And then I come downstairs where my office is by 4:30 and I work in complete silence until like 6:15 in the morning. And that's when I'm like the most creative. That's when I can do like deep stuff. I don't, that's just when my brain works best. And then I stop because then my daughter's up and then I don't start again until after 8:15.
And then I have a dog. So I stopped a million times during the day too. So it's not like I'm working 60 hours a week or doing any of that. I naturally stop, get up, go eat, go do other things like your brain can't always be on because it won't actually be functional.
Tori Autumn: Mm-hmm. And do you have anyone who supports you in your business?
And if so, What are their roles?
Stephanie Trovato: So nobody full time. Um, like throughout my business experience, I've learned when I need help, when I don't. So I've like subcontracted before. Um, when I launched my coaching side, I did hire, um, like a marketing VA. And so she helped me do all the things I don't know how to do, like for, and for kit and all the emails and setting everything up and recording.
And that was very helpful. So Now I have a relationship with her. So whenever I need her, I just get her on a retainer basis, um, for a certain number of hours, but. Besides that, it's just me because, number one, I'm super type A, and because this year especially, you know, like, business has fluctuated a lot and it's hard to, to know exactly what's going to happen, and I don't ever want to be responsible for someone else's income, so I always feel bad, like, if I don't, if I didn't have enough.
Or if something had to change, I would think I would feel too bad, but I think as my daughter gets older, I'll probably have like a VA more regularly just because she has so many activities.
Tori Autumn: Oh, yes, that makes sense. And you, you mentioned a great point about fluctuations and as entrepreneurs, so many of us.
deal with that, not necessarily knowing exactly how much we'll make each month, even though we do the quarterly planning retreats. And we, we do, you know, we have our set amount of clients. So how, how do you deal with fluctuations, um, in terms of finances and clients and what advice do you have for anyone struggling with that?
Stephanie Trovato: So, um, I used to freak out like money has always made me. I don't know uncomfortable. Um, and now that I make as much as I do, I have like this responsibility in my head that I need to always make that much. So. I don't know why until like probably mid 2022, I never really like sat there and really figured out exactly how much I need to make compared to like what I'm actually making.
So I sat there and broke down every single payment that comes out of my account, even like Netflix, everything, whatever my husband and I pay. And then added it up and I was like, okay, this is how much money I actually need per month. And then I was like, oh, I actually have way more. So that feeling of like dread when all of a sudden a client would be like, oh, JK, we don't have a budget anymore.
We have to cut everything immediately. Stopped impacting me so much because I used to be like, ah, what am I going to do now? I got to replace it immediately. Oh my God. And now I'm like, okay, all right, I know that I'll find more and I know I'm fine and I think like you have to know your numbers and sometimes it's scary to look because sometimes you're like, oh my God, I spend so much per month I didn't even realize and I'm not really making that much more or it might be the opposite and you're like, oh, I have way more money than I thought I did and I'm just spending it on silly things but you have to be honest with your finances or you are Never gonna truly know like what you're worth and what you should be charging and what you should be making because you're, you're too afraid to look at what you got.
Tori Autumn: Oh, yes. I've definitely had those moments where I was too afraid to check my account, especially after the shopping spree. So I totally understand that. That is great. Great advice. Thank you for that. Okay, so I'd love to know if you have, being a copy coach, a self love copy coach, do you have any copywriting or marketing pet peeves that you just cannot deal when you see it?
Stephanie Trovato: Oh, I feel like there's so many and like you, you see them and you're like, who thought that was a good idea? I even do it like I'm watching commercials and I'm like, really? And I've started paying so much attention to billboards and I felt so bad recently, but I said it out loud to my husband because this one.
Lawyer around here. She is on this huge billboard and she's pregnant like like eight months pregnant in this picture and she's writes like The slogan is like, fighting for you because I'm feeding two. And I was like, what? What? And like, I immediately like, which is terrible as a woman, but also like, I was being realistic.
I was like, I feel like I wouldn't want to hire her because she's going to go on maternity leave. So like, who's covering my case? Like, why would I want her to be my lawyer right now? Yeah. So I'd feel like. Um, in more small businesses, people, like, try to be too, like, catchy and funny and, like, if that's not you or that's not your industry, like, that's okay.
You don't have to do it. And if that is you, fine. But I feel like it comes off inauthentic if you don't. If it doesn't make sense, like, so then I was like, that is not a good lawyer billboard. So I feel like copywriting in general, if you're writing for your own business or you're hiring someone to do it for you, it is so important to be authentic and sound like you and be like what your business represents.
So if someone met someone like from your business or met you, they would be able to match that up and be like, Oh yeah, that sounds just like what I read and not the opposite.
Tori Autumn: I love that. And yeah, I see, I see weird or corny catchphrases all the time. And I'm like, I'm also very, you know, cognizant now because I use AI or, you know, chat GPT, and you can kind of tell after a while with someone just.
Copied and pasted and didn't put any type of thought into it or, or tone of voice into it. So all of those definitely catch my eye, but also makes me a little more critical of my own copy. Um, do you have any advice or tips for people who are trying to figure out how to use chat GPT and use it in their own voice?
Stephanie Trovato: Yeah. So, I mean, I love chat GPT. I know there's so many conversations about it. Chat GPT is only as good as the information you give it. So, I give like very detailed prompts. Um, if it comes out wrong, I'm like no, and I stay, I say why, and like try to It makes you kind of think because you're like, well, how would I describe this to somebody?
So like, because that's literally what you're doing to chat GPT. Like I'm describing exactly what I need from you. So it makes you think a little differently. But if you don't know those things, then chat GPT is going to give you generic stuff because you're giving it a generic prompt. But if you're like, I am a 36 year old mom and I'm struggling with this, and I need you to write me an article that will fix one, two, three pain points.
Um, and this is how I wanted to come across, and these are the takeaways, whatever. Um, and then please give me an outline, a detailed outline. And then it should be able to spit that out for you. And if it doesn't, then you can ask it more questions. But if you just say like, I'm writing an article about moms who struggle with stress, you're going to get a really generic answer.
Tori Autumn: Yeah, it's, that's so true. The more specific you are, the more it'll give you and also kind of learn how you write. So I actually love Jasper and I, I learned of Jasper's chat GPT functions from you. So I use it all the time and
Stephanie Trovato: I actually learned there's perplexity AI, and that is a good one to find stats.
Like It gives you, they'll be like, find me stats on, um, upskilling workers in the labor force. And it'll give you like 10 stats and the source for each of them. And then you still have to do your due diligence and go look, but it's way easier than sitting there trying to Google it. It's like a much better starting place.
Tori Autumn: Ooh, the power of technology.
You're known as a tough love copy coach. So what tough love advice have you had to learn as a mom and as a business owner?
Stephanie Trovato: Ugh, tough love is my life. Like, if someone had to describe me, like, I just give tough love, so that's where it came from. Like, I'm a very direct and tell you like it is person because I feel like that's the only way you actually make a change.
So, in my life, my dad was the same way. So when I first started my business, I was in my head so much like, I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know what I'm doing, and I, I literally had to tough love myself and be like, it doesn't matter if you know what you're doing, figure it out. But I have learned in the freelance world, a lot of clients don't care about you, don't care about anything, they like, you know, they, they hired you for something, you don't have such a personal relationship because you don't work for them.
Um, so, and don't get me wrong, there's plenty of amazing clients that treat you like. loyalty and like it's so different but there's some that just are not nice and you just have to take it for what it is and don't take it personal and it doesn't mean your work is bad and it doesn't mean that you're a bad person or a bad freelancer or you don't know what you're doing or that whatever's going on in your life is not important those people just choose not to care but that's okay like life goes on But then, you know, it makes you realize, like, oh, maybe I don't want to work with these people anymore.
So that's what I've learned, like, through different things that have happened. And I've had to tell clients, like, oh, hey, I actually can't work because, like, even Um, in August, I got in an accident, and I had a traumatic brain injury, and I had 12 stitches on my face, and it happened on a Sunday, and I couldn't work for two weeks, and I couldn't even, like, do anything.
My husband had to email all my clients, and most clients were incredible about it, and then some were just like, okay, no problem, and then, like, a week later, like, okay, can you work yet? Like, no! I just had my head cracked open. So you've kind of just, you learn a lot about people and who you want to work with and who you don't.
Unfortunately, that's usually tough love.
Tori Autumn: Yeah. Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry to hear about your, your accident. Thank you. I'm okay now. I'm glad, yeah, I'm glad you're doing better. And oh, I've totally been there with clients, with nine to five supervisors who are, um, who have no empathy with what you're going through.
Um, Because I guess life still goes on in their eyes, um, and they have priorities as well. So what are you thinking right now in terms of life and in terms of your business?
Stephanie Trovato: Oh, you know, that's the million dollar question, Tori. I actually had a lot of conversations last week with other freelancers about, you know, like the path you're supposed to take because as a copywriter, usually like after, you know, five years of business, you're in it for a while, you either create a course or you create an agency.
And there's kind of like, if you don't want to do either of those, what do you do? Um, so at first I was like, what am I supposed to do next? Because I feel like I'm trained that way, just from corporate America. Like, okay, I'm climbing the ladder and where do I go next? And I have since discovered, after thinking a lot and talking to other people, that it's not necessarily about that anymore.
Like, getting out of that mentality of like, grow, grow, grow, grow, and I have to be better and do better and have a different title. Now it's more just about like making work work for my life where I used to be way more focused on making my life work around work. So now I'm, it's, it's all about the balance and making enough money to be comfortable and set us up for long term, but also to show my daughter, like I can be this like boss business owner and also be a great mother and also be there for everything, you know, like juggling all the balls and wearing all the hats, but without losing my own mind.
I think that's my biggest thing. I focused a lot on my like mental health in the last year and like not freaking out and not. Um, getting so stressed out over such little things because as stressful as being a business owner might be. It's also. the most incredible thing because it's so flexible and you can make it exactly what you want it.
So my goal is to just keep making it what I want it each year and that might look different each year but having that control over that is my biggest thing.
Tori Autumn: I love that you said make work, work for your life and also prioritizing mental health. Are there any things that you do, um, whether it's each day or week or month that helps you with your mental health or wellness?
Stephanie Trovato: So I have learned that I need to get outside every single day. So in New York, it's not always nice. So I got a walking treadmill for under my desk and I have to move. Like I got to move my body. Otherwise I'm just angry, even in the winter. Now I move my body. I'm always, it doesn't have to be like this intense workout or any of that stuff, but I feel so much better because you have to step away from the screen for a second and just like take a breath and take it all in.
And I would say that's like my, it's so small and sounds so simple, but it's so helpful.
Tori Autumn: Yeah. I recently started moving every day. I have my, uh, Apple watch on that's like, you're on the road, girl. Just be your thing. And it was, um, it improved my, uh, Thinking, um, even the way I go about when I wake up, I'm just finding, finding reasons to move around, right?
Like just, just getting into the rhythm and also going outside. I love that. Thank you for, for sharing that. And then what are three high impact things that listeners can do today to improve their copy in their blogs or emails or landing pages?
Stephanie Trovato: Ooh, I wrote this one down. So. Number one, avoid being vague, because vagueness does not sell, vagueness does not connect.
So, if you have something to say, just say it directly, like don't beat around the bush, don't say like, this is such a generic thing, be specific, say exactly what you want. People will connect with that more, even if it's less people. Then you, like, would hope to have reached more people will connect with you being direct and then next, um, especially in emails, uh, only have one CTA, like one call to action, like don't put.
A bunch of different things they should do, like, make sure you join us for this, but also make sure you read this blog, and also make sure you go check out this landing page, because it's confusing, and people need clarity, like, just give them one thing to do. If you have that many things you want to lead them to, then you need another email, or you need another sequence, or you need another, what, uh, blog, but don't try to shove it all into one.
And then, cut the crap, is my biggest self love advice, like, cut the crap, like, you don't need this big long intro, you don't need to lead into everything, if you already have an established relationship, you definitely don't need to, just, just tell them exactly what you want to say. So after you write something, go back through and literally control F, look for the words like that, just, really, like, all those little filler words, just, Add to everything and cut them and then be like, how else can I make this shorter?
Do I really need to say all this? You can even use ChatGPT to ask you to make something shorter.
Tori Autumn: Goodness. Um, I'm just mesmerized by the phrase cut the crap. Like I really want to make that the title of this episode, but it's people like what? I love that. I love that. And also being direct, um, as you mentioned is so great Thank you. Is there anything else you like to share?
Stephanie Trovato: Don't be so hard on yourself, like as a business owner, you know, it's all on you. And I've learned like when I got hurt last month, I was like, Oh, I really wish I had a full time job right now because somebody else could worry about my crap because this sucks. But it's also nice that it's up to you and you have control over everything.
And so even when life is hard and you feel like you're not doing something right, just know like you are and you have control over your business journey. And things will change and there's some things you can't control and that's okay. And just keep a positive outlook and try to look at the long term.
Because looking at like next month might be depressing if you had a really crappy previous month. But then looking at the whole year being like, oh wow, I actually did all these things. And then you're like, oh, I feel better now.
Tori Autumn: Yeah, I love that being in control of what you can control is so powerful.
Thank you for that. Take away. I've learned so much having you on the show today. And like I said at the beginning, I've always looked up to you and want to thank you for being a mentor, a great friend. I love following along with you and what you're up to on the gram and for everyone listening, where can we find you?What gift would you like to share?
Stephanie Trovato: Yeah. So, um, I am, I took a little break from my coaching when I got hurt, but now I'm back. So I am on Instagram @toughlovecopycoach and, or you can email me if you have any copy questions at stephanie@toughlovecopy.com. I am on LinkedIn and I am an open book. So if you have a question, literally about anything about business, about copy, about anything, I will answer you, I promise.
So just send it away.
Tori Autumn: Amazing. We'll make sure to drop those links into the show notes. Thank you so much, Steph.
Stephanie Trovato: Thank you. This was really fun.
Tori Autumn: And it's so fun. And I know people are going to gain so much insight on it.
About Stephanie Trovato
Stephanie is a Copywriter and Strategist for B2B pioneers in SaaS, e-Commerce, and MarTech. Her work has been featured in HubSpot, Business Insider, LinkedIn, and Gartner, just to name a few. After successfully building her own copywriting business, she launched Tough Love Copy Coaching to help her fellow entrepreneurs and small business owners create their own compelling, genuine copy through relatable and hands-on coaching. In her coaching, she provides a hands-on experience for small biz CEOs to hone their copy and get it out in the world to live the life they dream of.
Connect with Steph on LinkedIn
Get a copy of Words & Phrases To Avoid from TLCC for free
About Tori Autumn
Tori Autumn is a conversion copywriter committed to helping conscious entrepreneurs grow an impactful business through sharing their heartfelt messaging.
With over 8 years in journalism and persuasive writing, she has worked with many women entrepreneurs to launch, create and sell services via emails, websites, and sales pages-- some resulting in $100K and close to a million-dollar launches, just to name a few!
She has spoken on The Copywriter Club Podcast, the Goal Digger Podcast with Jenna Kutcher, and is a sought-after speaker in private groups on all things copy, marketing, PR outreach, and visibility in business.
On a Living Spree: Achieving Business-Life Balance in the Modern Era is a podcast hosted by Tori Autumn! Every week, Tori brings you an up close and personal look at how successful people balance their business and home lives. You'll hear inspiring stories from top entrepreneurs about their journey to success while learning valuable tips to help you achieve a healthy balance in your life. Feel inspired, get motivated, and be ready to take on the world with new insights from On a Living Spree!
